Just for the record, we are using the Bloom translation.
Book 1
Socrates goes down to the Piraeus with Glaucon, son of Ariston.
On their way back, Polymarchus, son of Cephalus, detains them. Polymarchus is accompanied by Adaeimantus, Glaucon's brother, and Niceratus, son of Nicias.
"Either prove stronger than these men, or stay here." (Polymarchus)
This statement, which comes prior to any philosophical discussion, establishes the principle that force or power alone precedes rational discourse. In any contest of will, force or strength will always dominate over mere speech. This threat of power always hovers in the background of the discussion which will occur when Socrates (or any philosopher) speaks.
"Isn't there one other possibility, our persuading you that you must let us go?"
"Could you really persuade," he said, "if we don't listen?" ...
"It seems we must stay." (Glaucon)
Philosophy, which aspires to the truth of things, cannot compel anyone to listen. Before philosophy can do its work, i.e. instruct someone as to the truth of nature, the listener must be willing to be instructed. Thus, rhetoric, the art of persuasion, has an advantage over reason. Reason alone will not be sufficient to change anyone's mind if they are unwilling (or unable) to think clearly.
"Well, if it is so resolved, that's how we must act." (Socrates)
In the political arena, things "resolved" are done so through a sovereign authority.
All of the members of this group now go to the home of Polymarchus. The following people are gathered there: Lysias, Euthydemus, brothers to Polymarchus, Adaeimantus, Thrasymachus, Charmantides, Cleitophon and Cephalus.
Cephalus tells Socrates how old age seems to him. Some old folks lament the lost pleasures of youth: sex, drinking, etc. Other people, for example Sophocles, are satisfied without the frenzy of lust. In other words, old age brings peace and freedom from striving.
"But of these things, and of those that concern relatives, there is one just cause: not old age, Socrates, but the character of the human beings." Most people (the "hoi polloi"), "the many" are dominated by opinions about money.
331b - The implication here is that a rich man is less likely to lie or cheat than a poor man. Thus, we might say, wealth is very useful to an intelligent man.
331c - Is justice the Truth and giving back what a man has taken from another (repayment of debt).
331d - Polymarchus (son of Cephalus) interrupts.
331e - Simonides: justice is giving to each what is owed.
332c - "To give to everyone what is fitting, and to this he gave the name "what is owed." Thus, we move from a position where justice is giving to each what is owed, to now claiming that justice is giving what is fitting. Now we have a new problem: how to determine what is "fitting"?
332d - Justice is giving benefits to one's friends and giving harm to one's enemies, as in war.
Is it possible to identify a just man before you have defined what justice is? (332e)
333a - To men who are not sick, a doctor is useless. Yet justice is also useful in peacetime.
A just man is a better partner in money matters.
Must political reality correspond with philosophical truth?
Because something is not always the right thing to do, does that imply that it is foolish or wrong?
Is it necessary, or even possible, to define justice in such a way that the definition applies to every possible situation or circumstance? For example, justice = paying one's debts or giving back what is owed.
335 - Is it the part of a just man to harm any human being?
335d - To "harm" the unjust is itself an act of justice. "Nor is harming, in fact, the work of the good but of its opposite."
338c - "Justice is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger." justice in theory versus justice in practice. Is obeying the law just? Are there unjust laws? If so, what is the standard by which we judge these laws?
348e - Injustice is profitable; what is profitable is good; therefore, injustice is good.
Justice is "high-minded" innocence.
349c - the unjust man will try to get the better of everyone. "The just man does not get the better of what is like (just) but of what is unlike (unjust).
349d - the unjust man is prudent and good. the just man is neither.
the unjust man is "like the prudent and good" while the just man is not like them.
One man is musical, another man isn't. The musical man is prudent; the unmusical man isn't (i.e., he is thoughtless). In things in which he is prudent, he is good. In things in which he is thoughtless, he is bad. As with music, so with medicine.
350a - A musical man tuning a lyre does not try to get the better of another musical man tuning his instrument but only of the unmusical man. Likewise with a medical man. He tries to "get the better" only of the unmedical man.
For every kind of knowledge, a man chooses to say or do more than another man, and not merely the same as himself
What about the ignorant man? Would he not get the better of BOTH the man who knows and the man who does not?
The man who knows is wise? yes.
And the wise man is good? yes.
The man who is good (just) and wise will not want to get the better of the like (man like himself), but of the unlike (man different from himself). But the bad and unlearned will want to get the better of both the like and the opposite. Yes. The unjust man will get the better of both like and unlike, whereas the just man will not get the better of the like, but only the unlike.
351a - "Surely it was said that injustice is more powerful and mightier than jnstice."
351d - "As injustice that produces factions, hatreds, and quarrels.
and justice that produces unanimity and friendship."
Really? What about honest disagreements on what is the right thing to do?
352a - Wherever justice comes into being...it makes that thing unable to accomplish anything. i.e. injustice = disharmony.
What about justice opposing evil or anarchy? Justice, by opposing injustice, naturally alligns itself with ideas or people who agree on what is good; while separating itself from that which appears in a different light. This is how orthodoxy is born. "You are either with us or against us."
By this reasoning then, everything that opposes orthodoxy must be heresy. It cannot be true that only injustice creates disharmony. Disharmony is the necessary condition of a world divided in its opinions. Of course, Lincoln said "a house divided against itself cannot stand" (Mark 3:25) But he was speaking about fundamental beliefs, not every little opinion under the sun.
352b - the gods are just, but they are not always in harmony. Therefore, it is possible to have justice and disharmony.
352d - the argument is not about just any question, but about the way one should live. Every thing has its intended use. Eyes to see. Ears to hear. The "work" of something is what it alone can best do, i.e., its "virtue."
353c - Each thing has its proper virtue -- its intended use or "work".
353d - the work of a soul is its intended use.
a soul cannot accomplish its work (its intended use) if deprived of its virtue.
353e - a bad soul manages badly, while a good soul does well. justice is virtue of soul. Therefore, a just man (or a just soul) will have a good life (happiness) and a unjust man a wretched life.\
354g - It is not profitable to be wretched. Therefore injustice is never more profitable than justice.
386 - The statements and passages in Homer that showed gods and heroes lamenting their fate or suffering will be hidden from our guardians. Suffering makes us human. But guardians need to be strong and fearless. So we will withhold the truth and change what Homer has written. (the use of poetry as propaganda)
